Maragret Thatcher...

[bluflamingo]

Died this morning of a stroke. She was kind of a big deal in UK politics - first (and thus far only) women Prime Minister, hated right-wing figure by the left - so people have a lot of opinions on her being dead, unsurprisingly.

For the record though: if you're posting that you're glad she's dead, or that you're having a party to celebrate, or that you've signed a petition for her not to have a state funeral (all of which I've seen this afternoon) - can you unfriend me until you're done with that please? (Not saying that any of you would, but then I wouldn't have said that some of the people on my facebook wall would either - consider this a universal 'you')

I'm not saying everyone has to like her, or like her policies, or think they were a good idea. I don't. But she was a person, and she was a powerful woman, and it wouldn't hurt to treat her death with a little respect and a little less glee. She hasn't been in power for decades, she's not controlling politics now, and she wasn't kicking babies and puppies when she was. I'm not saying she was doing good and not hurting anyone, but she's being compared to Mussolini and Hitler who, you know, actually had hundreds of people killed.

I'm a little hesitant to say it's because she was a woman in power, specifically, and not because of her policies, but I can't help thinking that's part of it - that somehow what she did was worse because she was a woman and should have been softer or warmer or fuzzier or whatever.

As a woman leader in the 80s. Good luck with that.

You don't have to like her, but enough with the glee already. I can't stand David Cameron. I hate what he's doing to welfare rights, I hate his cuts, I hate his attitude and his face, I hate his man of the people what private school? speeches, and I hate that his coalition gets such good press. He's actually still in power and actually still having a negative impact on people. I still wouldn't wish him dead and yes I'd like him out of power, but through an election defeat, not through his death, and I wouldn't be happy if he was dead.

Margaret Thatcher, for whatever she did wrong, was someone I knew about when I was a kid. I knew that she was a woman who'd run my country and that meant something when I was a little girl. That was *rare* when I was a little girl, and is still rare know, and that she achieved that was worth something and still should be. Whatever she achieved once she got there.

In case it's not obvious: please can we keep the glee at her death out of the comments; criticism of her and her policies is fine, but no dancing on her not-yet-existing grave please.

Comments

[siria]

I'm not saying she was doing good and not hurting anyone, but she's being compared to Mussolini and Hitler who, you know, actually had hundreds of people killed.

Except that Thatcher did authorise extra-judicial killings (her 'shoot on sight' policy), was a key determining factor in what happened at Long Kesh, actively supported Pinochet, Saddam Hussein and Suharto, denounced Nelson Mandela and the ANC, and destroyed working class communities and livelihoods to the extent that there were people in the north of England left starving. People did die and suffer because of her policies. She was a woman in power, but she was no role model for other women because she walked on other women's backs to get to where she did. Thatcher did nothing for other women; she called feminism "poison" and said she hated it.

I didn't wish her dead, and I didn't wish her long battle with Alzheimer's (I would wish that on no one), but yes, my first reaction on hearing the announcement on the radio was satisfaction and relief. Yes, I think it's odious that she's being given the honour of a state funeral. She is to receive that great honour when her political legacy (which is potent, even though she hasn't been in power for a long time) is still causing such damage. I don't think it's a moral failing to criticise the dead and to say that in the final reckoning, they did more bad than good. If you wish to defriend me for thinking that, so be it.

[sian1359]

Thank you for this. Never have I felt my generational divide from folks I know through fandom stronger than this morning because of what I have read of this. Love her or hate her, publicly celebrating that she's dead is not something I want to be involved in, even peripherally. If not for my own humanity, then out of respect for the people and family who are in true mourning right now at her loss.

[havocthecat]

but she's being compared to Mussolini and Hitler who, you know, actually had hundreds of people killed.

In the case of Hitler, at least 12 million people, not counting all those dead in WWII on any side. Mussolini you could probably accurately place numbers in the thousands, though I haven't the faintest clue what the actual total would be. Margaret Thatcher may not have had politics I would have agreed with, but she's not able to be compared to Hitler or Mussolini.

I always feel weird when people express joy over someone's death, no matter what they may have done or not.

[tesserae]

I celebrated Ronald Reagan's death, I will celebrate George Bush's. And many people are still as angry at Thatcher as I am at Reagan, on grounds that are just as personally valid. I suspect their glee comes from the sense of profound frustration they felt at seeing so much that they loved turned to rusting heaps of metal and ruined lives - I know mine does...

[medie]

I commented on this on Twitter, actually. I believe that if someone is out and out gleeful about someone's death, then that says more about them than it does the person they're talking about.

[lazar_grrl]

Yeah, I have a problem with that too. There's something about people being openly joyful at another person's death which is disgusting. This is not a game where killing your enemy is a win. This is real life. Someone's wife and mother is dead and you are telling them it is a good thing, a joyful thing that someone they love is gone. Hating a person so virulently that you have a party when they're dead hurts you, hurts the people they left behind, and does nothing to that person. It makes you smaller and meaner and crueler, and frankly, there's enough of that going around.