Random question

[bluflamingo]

Is it just me, or do John/Rodney fics tend to default to either (a) John's been repressing/ignoring the part of him that likes men and not had sex with one since he joined the air force or (b) John's been completely straight until now; while John/Cam fics tend to default to John's been having sex with men (as well as or instead of women; and who may or may not include Cam) but keeping it secret since he joined the air force?

Maybe it is just me, but I'm scanning the John/Cam fic I've got tagged, and I can't find any where either (a) or (b) are true for John (Cam's a little more complicated, sometimes) but can think of plenty of John/Rodney where (a) or (b) is off the top of my head.

And I guess my real question is less 'is this true?' and more 'why is this?' Because John's got to have a thing for scientists? Because Rodney's just that awesome that John would change the habits of a life-time for him? Because John/Cam people have an air force pilots kink (I vote that one, personally)? Because it's a lot easier to hook John and Cam up if they've been involved with other pilots (or indeed each other) before (though if it is that one, surely it's easier to hook John and Rodney up if they've been involved with other men before?) Also, now my own habits are showing, because of course everyone doesn't write John having only been involved with other military guys before, unlike me.

No, I don't know why I'm suddenly contemplating this question-too much time trapped in my parents' house? Family induced insanity? Who knows.

Comments

[scrollgirl]

Yeah, I think the WNGWJLEO is in part driven by the OTPness of John/Rodney. If Rodney is the only one for John, then John having had serious relationships prior to Rodney detracts from the specialness of their bond. I've seen plenty of examples where John's ex-wife Nancy is dismissed as a beard. Ditto Katie Brown.

It's the difference between John/Rodney and John/Ronon. The latter pairing is unfortunately overshadowed by the former, and John/Ronon 'shippers probably feel they have to reconcile the fic to the fandom monolith that is John/Rodney, by including a prior John/Rodney slant before they can even get to John/Ronon.

With John/Cam, the pairing may be OTP for us 'shippers, but we don't assume it's OTP in the larger Meant For Each Other sense. I've written Cam as straight prior to John and I've written him as bi. I've always written John as bi, because I think John and Nancy's marriage was real, even if it fell apart later.

[bluflamingo]

If Rodney is the only one for John, then John having had serious relationships prior to Rodney detracts from the specialness of their bond.

I don't get that logic - makes me wonder what they think of real life relationships. What's wrong with 'I love you more than the other people I loved before you' or 'you're the one I think it will actually work out with'? That's not special enough?

With John/Cam, the pairing may be OTP for us 'shippers, but we don't assume it's OTP in the larger Meant For Each Other sense

True, I suppose. Which raises the interesting (to me at least) question of what makes a pairing a meant for each other pairing - or why people write them that way, anyway.

I think John and Nancy's marriage was real, even if it fell apart later.

Same here. Write everyone as bi, it's so much easier!

[scrollgirl]

Which raises the interesting (to me at least) question of what makes a pairing a meant for each other pairing - or why people write them that way, anyway.

We believe in fairytales maybe? We like the idea of there being one person out there for us, fate and destiny, etc. I mean, there are definitely some pairings I can believe are MFEO. Especially when you're talking about genre media in which fate and destiny are real things. (It's not as much of an issue in "reality" based media.)

But the problem with TV shows is that characters are constantly evolving, and two people who were perfect together ten years ago may not necessarily be right for each other today. Kirk/Spock of TOS might have been MFEO in 1966 but that doesn't mean they're more legitimate than Spock/Uhura in 2009. That's my opinion, anyway.

I wonder if Travis has it right, that SGA fandom is much more old school than you'd expect for a show from 2004. A lot of BNFs moved over from fandoms like Due South and Smallville, and they came from there from The Sentinel and Highlander. Those are old slash strongholds, with far fewer female regular characters. (Believe it or not, except for Smallville, SGA was an *improvement* on male:female ratio!) And they carried over that cop buddy dynamic in which the two male heroes were the most important thing in each other's lives.

Hmm, this comment is a bit incoherent, sorry. But I gotta rush, so can't fix it!

[bluflamingo]

And they carried over that cop buddy dynamic in which the two male heroes were the most important thing in each other's lives.

I don't think you're incoherent at all, that makes a lot of sense, particularly with the why is John/Rodney a MFEO pairing but not John/Cam or John/Ronon, even amongst their own shippers, because they don't have that male lead, buddy cop vibe that John/Rodney have. And yeah, I know enough about all those shows to know SGA is a big improvement at least in terms of regular female characters who aren't there as love interests.

And I guess, if you're looking at your pairing as the most important thing in each other's lives, it actually makes a kind of sense for them to be straight and/or repressed till they meet, because it makes the canon serious relationships with women easily dismised.

We believe in fairytales maybe? We like the idea of there being one person out there for us, fate and destiny, etc.

No, I get why people like it - I mean, it's not my thing because I hate the idea of there being one person out there, and the implication that you can't be happy without them, and anyway I prefer daily stuff to sweeping epic - I just wonder why some pairings are MFEO and some aren't. Okay, SGA has a bunch of original authors who come from shows with that feel, but why does everyone else write the pairing that way? Because that's how the original people write it? Because they see it too - and if they do see it, why? If you don't come from a background of male leads=MFEO, what makes it so for you? Why Kirk/Spock in 1966 but Spock/Uhura in 2009? Why not still Kirk/Spock?

I suspect that now I'm the one being incoherent, apologies - I usually get incoherent once I start asking why.

[scrollgirl]

Okay, SGA has a bunch of original authors who come from shows with that feel, but why does everyone else write the pairing that way? Because that's how the original people write it? Because they see it too - and if they do see it, why?

I honestly have no idea. I started a comment about how the canon epic romance means smaller pairings only have scraps to work with, etc. But the truth is, I don't know why SGA fandom specifically is like that, considering many BNFs and most of SGA fandom would argue that it's not the epicness of SGA canon that draws them to it, but "Team" and "Snark" and the daily stuff you mentioned. SGA isn't epic the way SG-1 is--in fact, I remember the comparison that someone (cesperanza, I think?) made once about how SG-1 was the Student Council President and the yearbook staff and SGA was the A/V geek and that slacker kid on a skateboard who threw spitballs during homeroom. (Of course, this only referred to the SGA boys; Weir and Teyla were far too grown-up for this kind of characterisation.)

Which is all my way of saying, I have no idea why McShep fans think John and Rodney are MFEO when nothing about their dynamic is about the epic destiny of, say, Clark/Lex. In that sense, MFEO is just something fandom has injected into McShep because... we're lazy? The pairing is just so mammoth that inertia dictates John and Rodney must be together, no questions asked?

It's why there are plenty of Reboot Kirk/Spock 'shippers who think they are still MFEO, even though canon has clearly said, no, they're really not. (Which isn't to say Kirk and Spock couldn't still get together, if that's what a fanfic author really wanted--but it's not so easy as assuming of course they belong together, as if Kirk is the only person Spock could ever love.) The dynamics of the Reboot movie is such that Kirk/Spock is emphatically not the only pairing available, but there are still plenty of people who refuse to accept that Spock/Uhura is canon.

[torachan]

I came to SGA from LotRiPS and Harry Potter and general RPF and it just felt like stepping into a time machine, really. Which is not to say there isn't stuff that feels more modern in SGA fandom, but overall the whole vibe of the fandom felt more like what I've seen of those older "buddy cop" fandoms that you mentioned.