(no subject)

[bluflamingo]

I'm not entirely sure if this is a serious question or a sarcastic one, but what is it that makes people feel compelled to point out that major changes to opinions and civil rights take time? Is it meant to make people feel better about the fact that they don't have these rights yet?

Because I gotta say, I don't know many people who that works on. Actually, I don't think I know any. Seriously, is it actually conceivable that someone who's just been told that the population of their state doesn't think they're worthy of getting married is going to hear that these things take time and say, hey, that's so true, I feel so much better now?

It's by far the most popular response from straight people when I'm complaining about some stupid thing someone's done or said to or about gay people (interesting fact: the chaplain to the London stock exchange thinks that all gay people should be tatooed with health warnings like cigarette packets. Sadly, he neglected to say what people might need to be warned about if they come into contact with me - I'm pretty sure gayness isn't catching, and neither is my fucked up knee, which is my only other health issue until summer rolls round again).

Either that, or, people don't have a problem with gay people, they'e just not ready to see them on the street.

Yeah, ok, that's a problem! I mean, I love that in my country, I can get married (well, civil partnershipped, and could someone please conceive a verb for that already, it's been years!), but that doesn't make all the casual homophobia ok, and being told that things take time to change, whil undoubtedly true, just makes me want to scream.

This rant was brought to you by way too many people making this argument when commenting on the gay marriage prohibition that California just passed, by my splitting headache that laughs in the face of pain killers, and by the guy I work with who, now that he knows I'm gay, assumes that, when I say minority rights, I really mean gay rights, because I only have a self-serving interest in civil rights.

On the other hand - Obama for president, oh yeah! I just wish there was someone who might run for prime minister who I felt this passionate about.

Comments

[havocthecat]

I hope I didn't make you feel bad with my post. If I did, I'm sorry. :(

[bluflamingo.livejournal.com]

It wasn't you - I don't remember exactly what your post said, but I remember reading it and kind of nodding along; I also remember who it was who finally set me off, and it wasn't you, so no need to worry or apologise.

[domtheknight.livejournal.com]

I totally agree. I am definitely happy about Obama, but while that was all over the news I spent the time refreshing results on the various gay marriage propositions and saw them failing, and yeah, it kind of dampened my enthusiasm a bit.

I had some friends who said they didn't really care, and... honestly it doesn't impact my personal life because I don't live in California, and I'm not planning to get married to anyone anytime soon, and I most likely won't marry the same gender.

But I'm so, so angry about it. About as angry as I got when I found out a couple states were thinking about restricting abortion rights (at least none of those measures passed).

[bluflamingo.livejournal.com]

It has no impact on me either - I live in the UK, where we have civil partnerships - it just, like you, makes me so angry. And then it makes me more angry when people try to be reassuring and consolidatory, and I just want them to be angry instead. Which, I know I can't control their reactions, but no-one's ever accused me of being rational :)

[skieswideopen]

I completely agree with you on everything (including the desire for a prime minister with vision--oh, how wonderful that would be). I'm heartbroken on behalf of all those California couples who thought they were finally married, and have now discovered that they're not. It seems to me that it cheapens marriage to make it something that can be withdrawn in that way. (And then, of course, there's Florida and Arizona and Arkansas...heartbreaking all around. I don't know where it's worse--in California, where they had marriage and a real chance of keeping it and then lost it, or Florida and Arizona, where they never had a chance and knew it, and don't even have civil unions to fall back on as they do in California.)

[bluflamingo.livejournal.com]

It seems to me that it cheapens marriage to make it something that can be withdrawn in that way.

Definitely. I think it's actually worse than never having the right in the first place in some ways, because it's like going backwards, like actual evidence of people getting less tolerant, even if it doesn't really work like that. Grr!

[ticketsonmyself.livejournal.com]

I'm not entirely sure if this is a serious question or a sarcastic one, but what is it that makes people feel compelled to point out that major changes to opinions and civil rights take time? Is it meant to make people feel better about the fact that they don't have these rights yet?

Because I gotta say, I don't know many people who that works on. Actually, I don't think I know any. Seriously, is it actually conceivable that someone who's just been told that the population of their state doesn't think they're worthy of getting married is going to hear that these things take time and say, hey, that's so true, I feel so much better now?

This rant was brought to you by way too many people making this argument when commenting on the gay marriage prohibition that California just passed, by my splitting headache that laughs in the face of pain killers, and by the guy I work with who, now that he knows I'm gay, assumes that, when I say minority rights, I really mean gay rights, because I only have a self-serving interest in civil rights.

I too have run into this argument so many times, as well as the attitude that "when you as a member of an oppressed group talk about any kind of oppression, you're really just talking about your own self-serving interests!" I couldn't agree more with your reactions.

[bluflamingo.livejournal.com]

Thank you! He's wound me up with this before, we got into a heated argument about the exact same thing, before he knew I was gay, and now it's like suddenly my argument, which he didn't give much weight to in the first place, has even less weight, because I belong to one of the groups I'm talking about. And it's so patronising to assume this. Argh, sometimes he makes me want to scream (which is doubly frustrating, because he's a really nice guy apart from this)

[ionaonie.livejournal.com]

I don't think it is supposed to make them feel any better. Or I hope it's not, because, like you, I can't actually see that working.

The problem is, it does take time for prejudice and fear to go away. A stupidly long amount of time for it to go. So while things are getting better, it doesn't really mean much.

I think the fact that people have to justify who they love is terrible and awful and to be told that you don't have the same rights as others because of your sexuality?

I thought everyone was equal. Period. But obviously not.

I can't believe that in a country where they just elected a black guy to be president, which, for them is a huge step forward, took such a huge one backwards at the same time.

*is depressed and pissed off with bigoted morons*

[bluflamingo.livejournal.com]

The problem is, it does take time for prejudice and fear to go away. A stupidly long amount of time for it to go. So while things are getting better, it doesn't really mean much.

Yeah. It just reminds me of when I used to complain about something as a kid, and my mum would say 'at least you're not starving in Africa'. Which, while indisputably true, didn't make me feel the slightest bit better about whatever had upset me. And sometimes I just want everyone to be as angry as I am, rather than trying to be rational!