Ugh, how is it Monday again already?

[bluflamingo]

1. Woke up with an itchy throat, now I'm too hot and feel like I'm about to pass out. Isn't March too late to be getting a cold?

2. Why, when people ring up for appointments or advice, do they never, ever have a pen and paper to hand? Wouldn't that be something you'd want to write down?

3. So, I just read a story by an author I really like, who does an amazing job of writing John being in unrequited love for Rodney, and who did again this time. I was all ready to ramble on in comments about how much I loved this, and to favourite it, until I read the first couple of comments in which she and another commenter agreed that they really hate Jennifer for, basically, not getting out of the way and letting Rodney be with John, and how this story is kind of an embodiment of that - that it's partly written to make the readers dislike Jennifer for that reason.

Which would bug me anyway, but the story is 4000 words of John not saying anything to Rodney, and Rodney being oblivious (as noticed by several characters in the story). Jennifer knows, but she's the only one.

That totally turned me off the whole story (even though I hadn't read it that way at all). It's just - okay, yes, it's very sad to imagine John pining away for Rodney while he runs off to be with Jennifer, and Rodney makes all these changes to how he is in order to make Jennifer like him more, but it's not Jennifer's fault. I'm sure John has his reasons for not saying anything, but he and Rodney have been friends for 5 years and he's an adult - if he wanted Rodney that badly, he should have been able to say.

And it's not like Jennifer relentlessly persued Rodney (not that there'd be anything wrong with it if she had, but she didn't). She asked him for a drink, then a year later he told her he was in love with her. And she thought about whether she wanted to be with him or Ronon or (presumably) no-one and decided she wanted to be with him, then offered up the terms of a possible relationship - basically, be a little nicer - for him to accept or decline. And he accepted, in full possession of his faculties, being a bright adult, and thus is presumably happy with the arrangement.

Where in that is Jennifer a terrible person for deciding that, hey, he liked me and made it clear he wanted to date me, I like him and want to date him, so lets date and (eventually) get married? She's with Rodney after they mutually agreed that they wanted to be together, John never said anything about liking him, Rodney gives no particular indication that he wants to be with John not her (because, really, it's not like Rodney *has* to date someone. If he didn't want to because he secretly lusted after John, he could have stayed single. As John does). Poor John, very sad, but, you know - Jennifer took action to be with Rodney, John didn't. Them's the breaks, as they say. It'd be different if Rodney knew how John felt and wanted him back and broke up with her and she was refusing to let it go, but he doesn't and he hasn't.

As I said, it's very sad for John, but dating Rodney when John wants to doesn't make Jennifer a bad person. How is this not obvious to everyone else?

Comments

[ariadne83]

Word. I felt sorry for John, but it really was his own doing and I certainly didn't blame Jennifer.

[bluflamingo.livejournal.com]

I felt sorry for John, but it really was his own doing

Yeah - I mean, I can see why he wouldn't say anything to Rodney, and I'm sure it's very frustrating to be John in that situation, but the people to blame are him and, to an extent, Rodney, not Jennifer. She's the only one acting like an adult!

[gaffsie.livejournal.com]

My guess is that it's easier to hate on Keller as some kind of boyfriend-stealing hussy (hah!) than thinking of her as a person with feelings and questioning John and Rodney's part in all this. I vote laziness, because the other option - raging misogyny - is just too depressing.

[bluflamingo.livejournal.com]

I vote laziness, because the other option - raging misogyny - is just too depressing.

Yeah, or really truly believing that John and Rodney are functionally together despite not actually being, if that makes sense - like she really is stealing Rodney out of a relationship he's in with John, rather than dating a guy who's single and doesn't know his best friend's in love with him.

[lavvyan.livejournal.com]

I stumbled over that, too. Jennifer reaching for Rodney's hand in the end had me all, "Go, girl!" because, hey. She's the girlfriend. If John wants to pine away, that's his prerogative, but not her problem.

[bluflamingo.livejournal.com]

If John wants to pine away, that's his prerogative, but not her problem.

Exactly! I can see why John wouldn't say anything, but Jennifer did and now she's with him. Sucks to be John, but that's not Jennifer's fault. Plus, also, all these other people who think John and Rodney should be together - one of them could have said something if they're that invested in it!

[(Anonymous)]

alright, so if someone wanted to read that story, because OH PINING JOHN! and wanted to forget that it was an anti-keller story, how would they do that? would you post the link?

[bluflamingo.livejournal.com]

Aside from the whole 'Rodney's a lesser person with Keller' thing that everyone buys into when they write them together (and which drives me nuts - she *does not have* magical powers over him), it's not a bad story. Her comments just turned me off.

I don't think I'm comfortable posting the link after complaining about it, sorry - I really do like her writing most of the time.

[scrollgirl.livejournal.com]

Sounds like you have my luck when it comes to finding authors who enjoy a nice spot of character bashing and character assassination. XP

I've pretty much decided that I will skim each fic before I try to read it, and if Rodney is mentioned more than 3 times in the course of 500 words, I will immediately back button the hell out of there.

And it's not *Rodney's fault*, but he's the polarizing character in these situations, and I just do NOT have the energy to deal.

[lavvyan.livejournal.com]

if Rodney is mentioned more than 3 times in the course of 500 words

Uh. Good luck reading McKay/Keller, then?

[scrollgirl.livejournal.com]

Sorry, my comment was probably confusing since you can't see my flocked posts. I wasn't trying to read McKay/Keller, just gen and slash, and I kept running up against character bashing. Very frustrating. And while it's not the character of Rodney who is to blame, what with being fictitious and all, I figure better to be selective in what I read until I get my cool back :)

[lavvyan.livejournal.com]

Ah, that explains it. Thanks. :)

[scrollgirl.livejournal.com]

Heh, yeah. After the Rodney-as-abusive-husband fic -- though I doubt the author realised that's what she was doing -- I'm taking a giant step back for the sake of mental health.

[bluflamingo.livejournal.com]

And it's not *Rodney's fault*, but he's the polarizing character in these situations, and I just do NOT have the energy to deal.

Yeah, I second that feeling! I'm sick of reading stories that leave me wanting to rant in my journal - hence I stick to nice, safe John/Cam stories :o)

[angelofmercy.livejournal.com]

I was under the impression that fanficcers that don't like Jennifer because they see her as a Sue-like character.

[10pmpacifictime.livejournal.com]

Yeah. I don't like Keller, but that has everything to do with the character and not with her relationship with Rodney (I'm a Cam/John shipper so I have no investment in McShep). I haven't seen most of the Rodney/Keller episodes, but what I have seen I felt sincere and like they were both making reasonable choices in the relationship.

I've yet to find an author that I think really captures Rodney. He's either too sappy or too thoughtless.

[bluflamingo.livejournal.com]

what I have seen I felt sincere and like they were both making reasonable choices in the relationship.

Yeah. I can't actually understand what she's meant to see in Rodney, but leaving that aside, they seem pretty happy together. I just wish the show hadn't had a romantic sub-plot, though at least it was Rodney and not John, so the John/Rodney people have to worry about breaking it up, rather than us John/Cam people :o)

[angelofmercy.livejournal.com]

Yeah, but part of that is Rodney wasn't exactly written with any sort of balance - one day he can shoot and kill a wraith, the next he can't hold a gun without shaking....

Also, I don't like that she's trying to change Rodney - what's wrong with Rodney as he is?

[bluflamingo.livejournal.com]

Also, I don't like that she's trying to change Rodney - what's wrong with Rodney as he is?

I'm never sure if this just bothers me less than everyone else, or if it's because I skipped the two episodes that were heavy on their relationship and so missed most of it, but it always seemed to me like she was making some light suggestions that he decided to take, rather than trying to make him change. She can't be the first person to suggest he could be nicer to people, she's just the first one he decides to do it for. I dunno, it just seems like people endow her with either some magical power to force change on an unsuspecting Rodney, or they inadvertently write him as unable to make a decision for himself about how to be.

I don't know, there's just *something* about most of the anti-Keller, especially the anti-McKay/Keller people that makes me want to jump up and down and shout 'he's an independent, bright person, he's doing this voluntarily. Stop writing her as though she has some kind of abusive power over him. He chooses to be with her under these terms, and it seems to make him happy. Let it go!'

But I think that might just be another symptom of me really not thinking Rodney's as amazing as everyone else in fandom does. And actually liking Keller more than him

[angelofmercy.livejournal.com]

I wish I would have skipped the Rodney/Keller on earth episode. I think that's where most of fandom's dislike for her and the pairing came from--that and she replaced Carson....I'm not saying that Rodney doesn't have his problems - I'd be in jail for murder 1 if I had to work for him or tried to date him, but it's more what she's trying to change/asking him to change seems to be so intrinsically Rodney that it shouldn't be changed. But if they're both happy, then so be it. I think Cam or Lorne are a better match for John anyway.

[bluflamingo.livejournal.com]

But if they're both happy, then so be it.

Exactly!

[bluflamingo.livejournal.com]

I think that's true in general, just in this case, Keller's an evil, man-stealing hussy. Personally, I like her, especially when I can ignore the relationship with Rodney.

[angelofmercy.livejournal.com]

I thought Ronon was good for her; not good for him because I think he was projecting his ex on to her, but he was good for her.

Clearly he needs to be hooked up with someone...if Evan's not with Colby it's not a bad pairing.

[bluflamingo.livejournal.com]

Clearly he needs to be hooked up with someone...if Evan's not with Colby it's not a bad pairing.

Yeah, they totally work together for me. And it does decrease the number of faintly tragic cross-galactic relationships going on at any one time!

[angelofmercy.livejournal.com]

Exactly. Surely someone's getting laid in Atlantis.

[bluflamingo.livejournal.com]

Yeah - it's kind of hard to believe the only person who is its *Rodney*

[bruinsfan.livejournal.com]

Certainly the main reason I've formed a dislike of Keller is the way her appearances in the latter part of Season 5 seemed to be the writers metaphorically shouting "See, the hot babe WILL TOO pick me-er, I mean Rodney-as her boyfriend!" And the way the character moments between the (theoretical) main four characters seemed to get short shrift in favor of involving her in every storyline.

Back when "Trio" aired I actually liked the idea of Keller and McKay being flirty with each other and starting up a nerdy romance, so I think it's the execution of their storyline rather than the basic idea of it that put me off.

It didn't help that Keller's been openly dismissive or contemptuous of two of my favorite characters for no clear cause. Though that's not necessarily a failing of the writing the way the above is - people do develop personality conflicts for inobvious reasons in real life.

[bluflamingo.livejournal.com]

Back when "Trio" aired I actually liked the idea of Keller and McKay being flirty with each other and starting up a nerdy romance, so I think it's the execution of their storyline rather than the basic idea of it that put me off.

I have a slightly obsessive thing about romance in films and tv shows, because to me it always comes across as 'it's not enough that you're saving the world/exloring the galaxy/have a family and friends who love you, you *have* to have a partner before you can be really happy/successful'. Though in this case, I'm with you about the execution being even more annoying.

It didn't help that Keller's been openly dismissive or contemptuous of two of my favorite characters for no clear cause. Though that's not necessarily a failing of the writing

I dunno - the writers do seem to go randomly up and down about characters for no reason, or try to make them out to be what they're not. Just out of curioity - one has to be Zelenka, I remember her and Sam talking about him in Trio - who's the other one she's dismissive of?

[bruinsfan.livejournal.com]

Ronon. In "The Shrine" she dismissed his tale about the cure for Second Childhood out of hand despite now living in a galaxy strewn with leftover deadly Ancient devices and germs that make people lose their memories or turn into hentai tentacle monsters. And in that two-parter with the Asgard she was questioning every tactical decision he made despite the fact that he (1)is a skilled soldier who's come back alive from captivity on a hive ship more than once and (2)has actually sought instruction about how the Daedalus works, unlike her. I also remember hearing her mention his name in an annoyed tone to third parties, but can't recall the episode.

I realize Keller might be smarting a bit over him not moving fast enough or deciding he wasn't interested in her after all (it was never clear to me exactly which happened), but that would be better expressed in choice of whom to sit with at lunch or movie night.

[bluflamingo.livejournal.com]

I realize Keller might be smarting a bit over him not moving fast enough or deciding he wasn't interested in her after all (it was never clear to me exactly which happened)

Yeah - it kind of got written like she just woke up one morning and thought 'you know what, I want Rodney.' Which, maybe she did, but it was a little random.

[dexyjo.livejournal.com]

I skimmed this fic because I'm starting to really dislike the pining!john fics. I'm ready for him to move on. Let McKeller have their marriage and 2.3 kids and their unevitable divorce. I want John to be in a happy relationship with Cam or OMC. Why aren't there more stories where he's happy? The only one I can remember reading is 'Never As Bad As Anticipated Until It Is' which I loved. I'm feeling kind of lonely lately... :)

[bluflamingo.livejournal.com]

Why aren't there more stories where he's happy?

Because he can only ever be happy with Rodney, of course, and Rodney's been brainwashed by Keller into being with her. Sorry, sarcasm set to high there! But I do think a big part of the problem is that most people write John/Rodney, and are also weirdly invested in not breaking up Rodney and Keller, which does kind of stump them when it comes to John. I'd say they should all convert to Cam/John, but I suspect if they did there'd just be a huge rise in fics where John leaves Cam for Rodney because Rodney's his one true love, or Cam is written as abusive and horrible for one reason or another, since most of the Rodney fans seem to hate Cam.

The only one I can remember reading is 'Never As Bad As Anticipated Until It Is' which I loved.

:o)))) (Sorry, I'm not sure if you know or not, but I wrote that, so you just made me very happy!)

[dexyjo.livejournal.com]

LOL, yes I know you wrote that, I've been following you (well, your fics of course) ever since and John/Cam in general. John is my favorite character and though John/Rodney is my OTP, I can see John with other men too.

I can actually remember reading a story where John is with somebody else and gets a call from Rodney saying he broke it off with Jennifer and John breaks it off with the guy to be with Rodney. And though I'm all for John and Rodney to be together in the end it left me very unsatified. I really don't want him to crawl back to Rodney, I think the crawling should be done by Rodney (and a lot of it...).

[bluflamingo.livejournal.com]

I really don't want him to crawl back to Rodney, I think the crawling should be done by Rodney (and a lot of it...).

Yeah. I'd love to read more stories where John turns down Rodney when he comes crawling along after ending things with Keller for whatever reason, because John's moved on and found someone else.

[dexyjo.livejournal.com]

Yeah. I'd love to read more stories where John turns down Rodney when he comes crawling along after ending things with Keller for whatever reason, because John's moved on and found someone else.

Yes, yes and yes. *keeping fingers crossed for those kind of stories*

[bluflamingo.livejournal.com]

Or... rats, now I can't remember who I was talking about this with...but stories where Rodney declares that he's always wanted John but didn't persue it for x reason, and John doesn't fall into his arms, but instead thinks maybe this isn't the greatest start for a relationship, since Rodney was either leading the women on or is maybe leading John on as well.

There'll never be many stories where these kinds of things happen, I don't think, because the McKay/Sheppard people tend to write John taking Rodney in, and everyone else tends to skip over John/Rodney angst most of the time.

[rubygirl29.livejournal.com]

Sorry about the cold. Ugh.

Everybody has their favorite pairing. Mine happens to be John/Ronon, but I'm more interested in how well a story is written and if the author stays true to the characters while in the pairing they choose.

Isn't it rather pointless to bash a character when you can write whatever you want? If John/Rodney is your thing, why belittle Keller? Or Ronon, or Lorne if they don't fit in your AU?

One of my favorite quotes is: "I live in my own little world, but that's okay. They know me there!"

[bluflamingo.livejournal.com]

Sorry about the cold. Ugh.

Thanks. I'm cursed with bad timing on colds this year - one when I had to run a Christmas fair at work, one when I had two job interviews in a week, and now this one when I have a sign language exam tomorrow. Not impressed.

Isn't it rather pointless to bash a character when you can write whatever you want?

Yeah. The weird thing is, I can kind of cope with fics that bash the characters, cos they usually start early on and I can leave the fic, whereas in this one, it was only in the comments that she started on with the Keller-hatred, after writing a mostly reasonable story. I mean, we were supposed to feel sorry for John, I think, but that's eminently doable without thinking Keller's evil incarnate.