How do you write?

[bluflamingo]

So, I have a file sitting on my computer, entitled 'Big Bang notes' into which, currently, everything I'm thinking about for this story is being shoved. It's a better way of keeping things together than endless post-it notes, which is how I organised my entire working life when I was working somewhere that I had a desk.

Currently, the contents of this file are about half a page of A4, and there is one thing that is actualy a major plot point. It's three words: search for Elizabeth?

Everything else is notes for little moments that I'd like to have in the story; some of them are tiny ideas, like 'Cam having a this is so cool moment' and 'Lorne with Parrish and Cadman, being teased for something really embarrassing that's happened recently'; some of them are actually vaguely related to plot, like 'Cam and Rodney get stuck somewhere to make it up' (because hell no are they going to get along in the beginning) and 'Cam sent to Atlantis because of injury?' (because, really, wouldn't Daniel be a much better choice?).

There's also half a dozen or so lines of a fight between John and Rodney, because even I in my happy John/Cam OTP land think that John's feelings for Rodney by season 4 aren't just friendship. Actually, this scene has been bouncing round in my head all week.

I still don't have an actual plot, but I figure I'm going to go with my tried and true method of plotting, which is to say, start it and the plot will develop as I go along. Plotting everything out beforehand bores me to tears, to be honest, because I feel like I'm just writing up what I already know, and there are no surprises.

I've been reading a lot of posts about people plotting out their stories by chapter, or by main plot points, or even just knowing most of what's going to happen, though, and I'm kind of curious about this. How do you know what's going to happen? Does the plot come to you pretty much fully-formed, or do you develop it as you write your notes or what? Explain this mysterious method of plotting to me! I don't get it!

Also - do you make notes for other stuff as you go along? Every story I've ever written has had a page at the bottom as I've gone along where I've stuck ideas for what will come next, and bits of dialogue, or description that I'm thinking of using, and sometimes even the end line (not always - more often than not, I'm writing away happily and suddenly realise, huh, that's the end and I have nothing else to say). Do you do that? Do you find yourself walking around with your main characters playing out a scene you haven't written yet in your head? Do you wake up with a brilliant idea for what comes next, or find yourself jotting ideas in the margins of your lecture notes? If you make notes, what kind of things go into them? Do you usually use everything that you jot down or does some of it never happen? Does your plot ever get derailed partway through, or are you stronger than that and keep it going where you originally intended? What makes the difference?

If you're anything like me, you love to talk about how you write, how you plot, why you do it that way... so come tell me!

Comments

[10pmpacifictime.livejournal.com]

1) I think Cam would put a lot more effort into finding Elizabeth than Sam would. Cam and John share a lot of that no man behind mentality. And even excluding any romantic relationship between the two of them, Cam is likely to empathize with John's grief and guilt (and let it influence him) more than Sam would.

2) Cam is a more sound military choice than either Sam or Daniel. Perhaps the IAO thinks it's more important to have a tactical expert than a science expert.

3) Does Rodney have feelings for John or is John just giving voice to the frustration that Rodney, his best friend, doesn't reciprocate and that if Rodney would reciprocate it would be much easier than being with Cam who is likely to be reassigned somewhere not Atlantis during most of their relationship?

4,5,6) Plot for me comes at a much slower pace. Usually I have a few key images in my head and I build around them. I personally don't outline, but the longest story I've ever written has been about fifteen pages, so it probably makes more sense to outline what you think is going to happen so you get some sense of trajectory.

Like I said, I don't usually know for sure what is going to happen. I have a plot point, a scene, and image, a piece of dialog in my head and I write around it. I also don't write in a linear fashion. I start a scene and then get inspiration for another later or earlier scene and move to that (or at least jot down what I imagine happening) so that I don't forget it in between.

I do a lot of walking around and jogging while I'm writing. I find it hard to sit still. The more intense the moment, the faster I walk. And I talk out the dialog, voicing first one character and then another. All while bouncing a tennis ball. I get a lot o really strange looks.

[bluflamingo.livejournal.com]

I agree with you on points 1 & 2 - in my head, they choose Cam because they want someone with military experience, because of the replicators and the wraith and everything. Plus, they think that Cam will be a calming influence on John,poor misguided souls. He's second choice after Sam though - something super-amazing and scientific happens on Earth to keep her there, probably something Ori-related.

3. A little of a, a little of b, a lot of an unspecified c (sorry, this is where I get annoyingly secretive because I don't want to spoil the surprise of that bit).

4,5,6. Your way sounds a lot like mine - sort of seeing where the story takes you rather than knowing at the beginning. Talking out the dialog with a tennis ball wuld, yeah, get you some odd looks, I guess :) I walk up a hill for 15 minutes to get to uni every day, and I have horribly bad knees, so it hurts - I distract myself with a scene running in my head. Of course, then I end up scrabbling for paper when I get to class and scribbling frantically so I don't forget it.

[miss-zedem.livejournal.com]

*g* This is a source of discussion for a lot of people on my flist at the moment...

My personal method, if you can call it that, is to have a character (or sometimes characters) and to want to get them to a particular point, emotionally. So, say I'm writing Ianto from TW, I'll know that by the end of the story, he's going to have realised something about someone, or he'll have told someone something, or whatever. I don't know how I'm going to get him there, but I know where he's going.

The stories I've been most pleased with are the ones where the character has changed his or her mind half way through - so Ianto decides he doesn't want a happy-ever-after with Jack, or Shep decides he's good at keeping secrets after all... I can't plan rigidly, but I do need to have an aim, and a vague understanding of the journey I want my character to take.

(God, that sounded pretentious. I hope you know what I mean)

So yeah. Basically, it's all a bit vague and woolly for me. And yes, I do randomly jot down conversations that my characters have in my head, or a particular phrase that seems to sum up how my character's feeling at a given moment. One thing I absolutely have to have, though, is a clear mental picture of where this is all taking place. I have so many images saved on my computer, of beaches, various locations around the world, parks... All have been used at various points to help me get the right 'mood'. That, more than the words, is important to me, cos if I can't 'see' a scene, I won't be able to write it.

I wish I was one of those people who could plot things out. But I figure, I couldn't do that with essays when I was at uni - why would I suddenly be able to do it now?

[bluflamingo.livejournal.com]

It didn't sound pretentious at all - I've heard a lot of people say similar things, and it makes a lot of sense. Like having a destination but setting off with only a really big scale map, maybe.

What you say about setting is interesting to me, cos that's one thing I'm really crap at - if I don't remember to do it, half the time, the scene might as well be happening in a white box, because I forget to even mention where they are, never mind any kind of description of the place.

But I figure, I couldn't do that with essays when I was at uni - why would I suddenly be able to do it now?

Yeah, I know that feeling. I still don't plan essays, really - I usually have a list of points that I probably want to make, and quotes I probably want to use, but half of them will get abandoned, and the introduction gets rewritten dozens of times so it actually relates to what ends up coming after it.

I don't know that I wish I could plot - I just feel weird because everyone else has and I'm sitting here thinking, 'I dunno... maybe something about the replicators, and it might be cool to bring Sora back...'

[domtheknight.livejournal.com]

Oh, I am pretty much the same way with plot. I have to tell the story to myself first. And then maybe I go back and make it better, but if I already know what happens in every single scene, what's the point of writing it? I can write if I know just the very beginning and the very end, because there's still the fun of getting to the end, somehow.

I was the same way with school. I could have basic ideas, maybe some quotes I wanted to use, a thesis, etc. But if I had a paragraph-by-paragraph list of what I was intending to write, I lost all my motivation.

Anyway, that's not much help for understanding how the other side works.

[bluflamingo.livejournal.com]

Anyway, that's not much help for understanding how the other side works.

True, but it's kind of nice to know there are other people on this side :)

[wickedwords.livejournal.com]

I've never written something this long before, so I'm having to adapt. I do know I like to sketch out what I'm doing as I go, but that has often been just a few scenes ahead, rather than outlining the whole thing. I need a vision about what should happen in a scene before I really feel comfortable writing it, and I need to know how it's all going to end before I can effectively start. But I don't write sequentially, and I kind of do a rough cut of a scene, then go back and flesh it out. So while I guess I do have an outline, it's pretty much a sketch of what I think will happen, and I color in the bits that appeal to me as I go along.

[bluflamingo.livejournal.com]

It's interesting how many people say they like/need to know the end before they begin - I almost never know how things are going to end until shortly before I actually get there.

I don't write sequentially, and I kind of do a rough cut of a scene, then go back and flesh it out.

That's interesting (sorry, that sounds really patronising, but I do mean it genuinely). If you don't write sequentially (but I remember most of your stories progressing sequentially, I think) what makes you pick which scene you write next - do you do the ones you find most interesting or important then fill in the rest, or is it random?

[wickedwords.livejournal.com]

Sometimes I'll have a story bit that I just have to write right no! So I will go ahead and write it, and then go back and write the bridge bits to get there. In a way, it makes the in-between scenes more exciting for me, as now it's a puzzle I have to solve to try and make everything fit.

[slybrarian.livejournal.com]

I tend to have a very general plot outline that I fill out, with a few scenes that tend to come to me while driving and walking to and from school. For example, for my Big Finally Seceding Fic, I've had several key scenes more or less planned out in my head for a long time now, and I just need to actually write them out, and then flesh out the stuff in between. I also try to have a general idea of where the characters are going to go. When I actually write it, it doesn't necessarily come out chronologically. Again, there tend to be a few key points I get done first, and then things fill in from there.

[bluflamingo.livejournal.com]

Hmm, someone else who doesn't write in order but skips around. I guess maybe that comes from the whole knowing roughly where you're going thing - you can sort of see the stuff that comes in between, even though you haven't written it yet? I'm kind of fascinated by people who write that way (mainly because I use the interesting stuff that's coming - once I know what it is - as a bribe to write the bits that are necessary but, to me, less interesting) - do you ever have to go back and rewrite stuff in light of the filling in you write after but which occurs earlier in the story, if that makes sense?

Totally unrelated, but I love your icon - what is it?

[slybrarian.livejournal.com]

Oh, yeah, I end up rewriting stuff to make sure all the details line up at the end all the time. For example, with my current Big Fic, I've known for a while that I'm going to have Carter relieving John of command to the sound of scientists protesting and waving around signs in the background, and that it'd be because of some kind of big public outing. When I finished the scenes actually leading up to said outing, though, I went back and fiddled with dialog a bit to fit better with what actually ended up happening. (In this case, going from "sympathetic and plotting" to "sympathetic and plotting involving blaming alien drugs.)

I can see where you're coming from about the bribe, and sometimes some of the middle stuff does end up dragging a little. Although my big fic isn't a good example here, because even the 'filler' is interesting to me, because it's mostly snippets of media coverage of what happened in the important scenes. (Think sorta like Speranza's Victors, but with the press instead of historians.) I'm in the middle of a class analyzing that sort of stuff, and I ended up incorporating it.

The icon's imagery of solar flares from a NASA satellite. I rather like it, too.

[bluflamingo.livejournal.com]

because it's mostly snippets of media coverage of what happened in the important scenes.

Cool - I love reading bits of documentation the people make up, it's fascinating to see how they do it, and to try and read between the lines.

This is a big bang fic, yes?

The icon's imagery of solar flares from a NASA satellite.

It's so pretty - I shall go and google for some pictures of these (funnily, I've just spent an hour talking about moon landings and NASA with my housemate - she doesn't believe they ever happened, and I can't get my head around the idea that before the end of my life-time there will be no-one left alive who's ever set foot on another world, because *no-one has ever gone back*).

[slybrarian.livejournal.com]

I'm actually worried about the way my fic meanders a bit, but I figure when it's finished I can go back and cut parts out as separate fics. It's actually not for Big Bang, I started it back in January and it's up to 35,000 words now. It'll probably end up around 45-50k. I'm not doing Big Bang this year, because I've got school and other fics to work on.

Also, you must get your housemate to check out the Bad Astronomer's stuff on the moon landings, because seriously, not believing in them is so stupid it burns. Hopefully we'll go back before we're dead... hopefully. Maybe given sufficient life-extending medicinal advances....

[bluflamingo.livejournal.com]

I'm not doing Big Bang this year, because I've got school and other fics to work on.

Oh, sorry - I thought I remembered seeing your name on the sign-ups, but clearly I'm just hallucinating :)

Hopefully we'll go back before we're dead... hopefully. Maybe given sufficient life-extending medicinal advances....

I just don't understand how we can have all these people studying our own planet, and then, after one trip to the moon, everyone's all, right, done that, what next? I mean, seriously - you got every scrap of possible information on the place in one trip? Because if that's true, those guys need work on the Earth - total understanding in less than a day!

[skieswideopen]

I've written both ways--completely on the fly and with a very detailed outline. These days, while I always prepare an outline for academic papers, I usually don't bother with a detailed outline for fic unless it's an exceptionally long piece. With short pieces, I usually try for at least some sense of how it's going to end (how major problems will be solved, where character relationships will be, etc.), but I don't worry about details beyond that. With long pieces, I'll usually map out a general plot (or three) and a few of the key scenes I plan to include (e.g., character A and character B bond over their horrible childhoods). I'll also figure out approximately in what order these scenes are likely to occur. But I don't necessarily write out every scene, and I certainly don't write out every paragraph. As for how I figure out the scenes, I usually start with a beginning, and ending, and whatever scenes popped into my head when I originally thought of the story. Then I supplement with a few key scenes or plot points that I think will be helpful in getting from beginning to ending, so that I have some idea of where I'm doing.

Even with outlines, everything is subject to change as I write, and I'm often hit with other ideas that I write down and try to work in as I can. (I have a scrap file for each major piece I write, plus a general scrap file for things that may become their own stories.) Discarding those ideas is always one of the hardest parts, though, of course, sometimes they just lead to new stories. :)

I also have the same problem as you in terms of forgetting to describe surroundings--I almost always think of my stories in terms of conversations and body language. I usually end up going back through my piece after it's done to fill in some sensory details.

[bluflamingo.livejournal.com]

Wow, that's a lot more planning than I do, even just knowing what your key scenes are (my notes on what scenes I want are a mix of key scenes and stuff I want because I want to write that, I guess, though it's not always clear which is which).

I get the scrap file thing - I have the same. The story I'm writing for lgbt fest at the moment might as well be getting written straight into it actually, since I'm currently on my third attempt.

I usually end up going back through my piece after it's done to fill in some sensory details.

Mm, or I'll have moments where I can tell when I read it back that I suddenly realised there was no desription of the place, or that I could stand to use some other senses or whatever - hopefully it's not so noticeable to everyone else!

[lavvyan.livejournal.com]

Uh, this has gotten very long. Sorry.

How do you know what's going to happen? Does the plot come to you pretty much fully-formed, or do you develop it as you write your notes or what? Explain this mysterious method of plotting to me!

That's a bit difficult to explain. The plot usually starts with a general idea, though it can also be a specific scene. I think about how to get there and come up with a beginning. I write the beginning down. I take it from there. It's kind of like sitting down and just writing the story, except a lot faster and more condensed. Some of it is very general outline, some of it is more detailed.

Like, the plot outline for my Big Bang story is about four A4 pages long. It contains gems such as Infirmary: Carson running a battery of tests on John (bug or stable?), but also stuff like this: For one impossibly long second, everything inside John went still. Then he drew in a long, shaky breath. "Where?"

It also has this: John being happy//Foreshadowing! It has scenes I put in to emphasise what I decided would be the main storyline (because it's not always obvious). It has a completely reworked ending because the one I came up with was far too… dunno, spongy? to really be satisfactory to anyone. There are little notes about where to put in more character development and a snippet of background story that won't be used as such, but is nevertheless important to how a certain group of people react to what's going on.

I know this is very vague – I hope you get what I'm so ineptly trying to talk about. *g*

Also - do you make notes for other stuff as you go along? Do you find yourself walking around with your main characters playing out a scene you haven't written yet in your head? Do you wake up with a brilliant idea for what comes next, or find yourself jotting ideas in the margins of your lecture notes?

Yes, to all of that. I also sometimes write scenes in the middle first and then have to change them around a bit to make them fit the beginning once I get there. While I try to stay true to the plot outline once I've decided it's finished, it's always possible that the underlying emotions of a scene aren't what I initially imagined anymore. So instead of John being angry as I thought he would, by the time I connect the story snippets he might well be sulking.

If you make notes, what kind of things go into them?

Everything. Background, snippets of dialogues, a line to remind myself that John should have mandatory sessions with Heightmeyer at this point – everything.

Do you usually use everything that you jot down or does some of it never happen? Does your plot ever get derailed partway through, or are you stronger than that and keep it going where you originally intended? What makes the difference?

I usually try to use everything I jot down, but some of it doesn't fit the story anymore by the time I get there, or I scan the plot outline for scenes-wot-are-pretty-but-don't-lead-to-story-progress and scratch them wherever I can. I might have this really nifty idea of the Wraith attacking Atlantis and Zelenka figuring out how to submerge and move the city, but they have only two ZPMs and the strain leads to all kinds of problems and OMG peril and drama eleventyone, but since it's a story about John's way to self-acceptance and his search for abducted!Rodney, the scene would just take up space that could be used better. It doesn't help the plot or even subplot, so a cutting board victim it is.

As for the derailing thing, yes, that happens. I usually try to work out if the new direction works better than the original one while still allowing the character to take the important steps of his journey. If it does, the changes are incorporated into the plot outline and the old bits are taken out. But that's really a case-to-case thing. :)

[bluflamingo.livejournal.com]

Ah, foreshadowing - I have to admit that's one of those things that I go back and write in once the thing that needs to be foreshadowed has happened. A bit like writing the introduction to an essay once I've written the content.

I do the reminders thing as well - it's what I like about handrwriting stuff - there are margins in which these things can be jotted. It's not the same on a computer, because I tend to read back as I'm going along, and I'll see things in the margins on paper, but not on the next page of a screen.

You have more self-control than me I think - I'd totally let the story go off into a tangent about ZPMs and sinking the city and drama, and then have to try and drag it back to the actual plot. I'm just weak-willed when it comes to these things :)

[dossier.livejournal.com]

I have done outlines, and I have seen the story whole and complete and simply applied myself to writing it down.

The thing about outlines is that for me it's perfectly fine to adjust that to take into account one of those OMG THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS moments. Also, I find that if I don't know the ending before I start (even if I change what that ending is midstream), I literally go nowhere, ever.

Sometimes an outline is no help at all and I rail and rage at the story for fifteen years, anyway. Yes, no kidding.

I have also written in out-of-sequence chunks, as a matter of fact, it was the only way I wrote for a long time. The thing about that is, it only works if I have a good idea of the story overall beforehand. The story that I'm flailing around with now is basically done according to the outline, and I suddenly realize that huge chunks are missing. so going back in and backfilling, and taking into account the foreshadowing. Which like you, usually comes in *after* the ending is written, though I occasionally find that I've surprised myself, and it's already there to some degree.

It sounds like what you're doing is developing the theme of the story before you get to the plot. I never can do that, must have plot, and then I can go back and tease out the accidental themes and improve them. Once in a great while the theme will bang me between the eyes halfway through and I can actually write that in as I finish. GLORIOUS.

But yes, theme is what drives the heart of the story, and the plot can just be the bare sticks upon which you lay the theme. Those are far more emotional stories and I applaud you for that.

[bluflamingo.livejournal.com]

I'm really fascinated by how many people talk about needing to know the end before they start - I hardly ever know how something will end before I start it. I can see how it would be useful though.

I occasionally find that I've surprised myself, and it's already there to some degree.

Yeah, I'm the same, sometimes, though I think that's more because the plot has come out of something that I wrote, rather than having the plot before I started if that makes sense, so I'm unconsciously foreshadowing what's coming for myself and for the people reading it. I don't know - it sounds a lot more pretentious written out than it is in reality (in reality, it's 2000 words in and going, oh! plot! yay!).

I like the idea of developing the theme before the plot - that sounds a lot better than fumbling around and hoping the plot comes to me (that was what I found odd doing 14 valentines - the character pieces about the female characters had zero plot before they started (and zero once they were done, in some cases!) and generall started with me writing a sentence about that person and then going on until I realised what I had to say about them; the other seven, the pairing based ones, I had a rough idea of where each of them was going before I started).

I think theme is easier for me in a way, because really what I want to write about is people belonging together and belonging somewhere, and that fits in easily to the vast majority of stories, even if the plot is about something else. I think that's part of why I liked your East of the Sun as well, because so much of it was about, or had the underlying theme of, belonging and family and creating a home.

[dossier.livejournal.com]

LOL East/West's theme was a complete accident. I had no idea that's what it was about for about, oh 65,000 words, which is one of those cases where I set it aside for abut 4 months and thought about what it really meant in terms of the character development, and then change the ending about 60 bazillion times as I progressed.

I was going to say that I found it difficult to write from a theme, but now that I think about it, almost all of my older stories were derived strictly from a theme, and I struggled to make a plot out of it. Now, I have plot and have to go dredging it up. Fascinating! I'll say that I was a lot more prolific during that period, at least in comparison. Maybe it's the fandom itself, that SGA/SG1 screams NEED PLOT to me, or that so many others do it so much better, and I'm just trying to squeeze out my own little niche.

And yay for the 2000 words! If you want to bounce anything off of me, or need a second beta, I'm more than pleased to help.

[ionaonie.livejournal.com]

How do I write? Now that is a question.

I've planned things out to the nth degree and I've also just written on the fly.

For example, Break A Leg has never had a plan, I've never known where it is going, or anything like that.

For the my other series/challange fics, I do tend to plan them out. I start off with the initial idea and let ideas/scenes come to me. When they do, I write them down so I don't forget them because experience has shown me that just because I like them to begin with, I will end up forgetting a line/image that I'd originally had in my head.

Once I get the scenes/ideas that I've thought of, I find ways to get from A to B to C etc.

With Bigbang, I read one of the prompts and there was this whole idea that arrived in my head. This is the first time this has happened to me. I've been furiously scribbling it down. And then I realised I had the beginning of a fic - not an entire fic. This played around in my head and then the middle and end luckily deicded to arrive to.

Although I do plan things out, I'm not afraid to follow where a story takes me and sometimes this means cutting bits of my plan out. I've also been known to move scenes around so that the running of a fic goes better (actually just been doing that with my literal_sga fic this morning).

I don't know if that helps, or if it was just me rambling on.

[bluflamingo.livejournal.com]

That does help, yeah - I love knowing how other people do things :)

With Bigbang, I read one of the prompts and there was this whole idea that arrived in my head.

That sounds cool; I usually end up with either a first line or a really vague idea (Soon be Safe and Warm, for example, I knew it was going to be about Rodney finding John in the middle of the night, and there'd be affection and comfort, but I had no idea why there would be)