(no subject)

[bluflamingo]

I don't get writer's block - why do I have it *now* with a week to go before my yuletide story is due and nothing written?!

Also - why are the people on sgastoryfinders always looking for stories where John's a complete bastard, and particularly where he's a complete bastard to Rodney after Trinity which is (a) totally unsupported by canon (b) totally unsupported by John's characterisation (c) totally unsupported by *Rodney's* charcaterisation, since he's usually the poor defenseless, helpless guy who hides away in his room because no-one *looves* him (d) kind of offensive to their whole trade off saving each other's lives thing and (e) something else that I now can't remember. I mean, I get that fandom is full of people who think Rodney is a poor tragic woobie who just wants to be loved but good God, could people please get a grip and stop with the whole John's evil and horrible and doesn't care about him thing? Have they *seen* the way John looks at Rodney lately?

Also also - Rodney's hardly blameless in Trinity, he nearly blew up himself and John after promising John could trust him. John saying Rodney can earn back his trust is a fairly reasonable reaction, not an indication that he's planning to shun Rodney even through Rodney being injured/sick/suicidal/attacked etc.

And while we're on the subject of Atlantis - could someone please gag Mallozi and give him mittens so he can't type? As much as I love the idea that Vega was gay and into Keller (which, ha! I totally called that in Search and Rescue) it's offensive to say that now they've kiled her. And also - people can just go on thinking that x character who's gay in his head is straight until Mallozi reveals who it is? Yeah, I think there's a pretty good chance that at least some of us are happily thinking he's gay, and seriously, he'd have been better off saying nothing.

That said, I still respect Atlantis more than almost any other show on tv at the moment, because John once asked Ronon if he was seeing a woman or a man like it was a totally normal thing to be asking, and how many shows have you seen lately where the possibility of someone being in a same-sex relationship is just a passing comment, not a major plot point? (I don't count Torchwood, because it has its own skeevy sexuality issues. Don't ask me about them if you actually like the show or John Barrowman). It's unspeakably depressing that it takes such a small acknowledgment of the existence of gay people to make me respect a show.

Okay, now I feel better. No less stuck, but better for ranting :)

Comments

[havocthecat]

I...am not a huge Torchwood fan. So do you mind sharing what your issues with it are? I've only seen half of one season, but I don't mind spoilers.

[bluflamingo.livejournal.com]

Happily :) I think my main problem with it is that it bills itself as being so amazing and edgy because it has openly queer characters, and same-sex relationships on screen - by season 2, Ianto and Jack have hooked up, they're shown being interrupted having sex, they kiss, Jack and an old sort-of friend toss glass at each other and kiss in a bar... And certainly John Barrowman comes across as thinking he's quite the hero of LGB people in the UK, at least in part for being in the show.

What bugs me about that is - they talk one thing and show another, because all of Jack's real relationships, the ones where he's been in love, have been with women, and all his relationships with men have been not-love. Even the thing he has with Ianto is played off against the way he feels for Gwen, and it comes across a lot as Jack ending up with Ianto because Gwen marries someone else.

All of which would be... well, not fine, but, you know, normal... if they didn't try to make out that they're so gay-friendly, when actually, they're just perpetuating the same old stereotypes, but with on-screen nudity in the hopes that no-one will notice!

[angelofmercy.livejournal.com]

Don't get me started on Gwen. I cannot stand that character - she's fucking married and still making cow eyes at Jack.

[ticketsonmyself.livejournal.com]

Jumping in to say I couldn't agree with you more about everything in your comment! Ack, Torchwood.

[miss-zedem.livejournal.com]

all of Jack's real relationships, the ones where he's been in love, have been with women, and all his relationships with men have been not-love. This right here? Sums up perfectly my problem with Torchwood's attitude to sexuality. I would LOVE for Jack to tell an inappropriate sex story about some woman he met, or for him to go all teary-eyed over a photo of a guy he was in love with. But it's never going to happen. I'd even settle for them putting his feelings for Ianto on an equal footing with his feelings for Gwen instead of it being just 'dabbling'. But again, so long as fangirls and boys are dazzled by the pretty, that's never going to happen either.

(Don't even get me started on Tosh's amnesia when it comes to same-sex relationships. Just GAH.)

And JB has way too big an opinion of himself. I'm all for self-confidence, but there's a line between that and arrogance, and I think he's a long way over it.

[havocthecat]

Ugh. Okay, I see why you're really furious with the show. See, and if they really wanted this whole Jack/Gwen vs. Jack/Ianto contrast, why couldn't they just put it in a context of "she's with someone else who's better for her, and Jack's with Ianto, who's better for him" instead?

But I don't actually know if that would save the storyline, not having watched it. I'll take your word on all of it.

Argh. I would probably be tearing my hair out on that if I were you and I were watching regularly.

[prehistoric-sea.livejournal.com]

LOL Oh the TRINITY FIC it is practically its own genre. Although I agree with everything you said. I think a lot of people eroticize punishment and redemption, and when it comes to fanfic, people will take any excuse, and if it's a round hole and square peg, so be it. Can't say I haven't been guilty of the same thing I sure.

I love that Ronon and Shep moment too! Thanks for reminder of something positive. Sorry Yuletide is not being so festive.

[bluflamingo.livejournal.com]

when it comes to fanfic, people will take any excuse, and if it's a round hole and square peg, so be it.

I think that's exactly it. I just - how can someone watch the two of them on screen and then write that stuff? And why has no-one ever written a story based slightly more in the reality of the show, where they basically just get on with things, or Rodney goes and makes a sincere apology because he comes round to why John was upset, or... you know, anything that would actually read like the two characters?

I love that Ronon and Shep moment too!

It's completely pathetic how much I love that moment, just because it makes being gay seem like something normal and unremarkable, which tv is incapable of doing, most of the time.

[(Anonymous)]

I know this reply is a bit late, but I just came across your journal via sgagenrefinders and am beginning to go through your archive of fic.

I must have watched that scene (from "Sunday" I believe?) at least 10 times the first time I saw the episode because I was so shocked that the conversation was so normal. The previous comments pretty much sum up my feelings about it much more succinctly than I can.

I have no other constructive comments, but I love your writing and can't wait to keep reading!

Rebecca

[argosy.livejournal.com]

I don't think (most) people think most of that genre of post-Trinity fics are "good" or "IC," but there's a certain amount of pleasure in wallowing in badfic sometimes. I can't define it or tell you why, but I know I enjoy those fics on occasion without in any way believing them reflective of the actual canon. :)

[bluflamingo.livejournal.com]

I don't think (most) people think most of that genre of post-Trinity fics are "good" or "IC,"

I guess... though I still don't see the attraction, though that's possibly because I like John far more than I like Rodney, so I just don't like stories where he's made out to be horrible. Stil, though, someone wrote them and presumably thought they wer good enough and ic enough to post - I mean, presumably they're not all written as self-indulgent bad-fic, even if they're read as such. Which is, admittedly, not my original point, but is still kind of... ugh.

[slybrarian.livejournal.com]

I agree completely about, well, pretty much all of this. I really don't know where people get the idea that John would be cruel to Rodney, be it after Trinity or any other time. I could see some pointed ribbing, but nothing beyond what's normal for the two of them. It just doesn't fit their relationship at all. John was pissed, sure, but there's no way that lasted for more than a few days. At worst, John ruthlessly exploited Rodney's sudden feeling of guilt for the purposes getting extra candy bars - which probably worked for all of a few hours.

The comment about Vega irked me, too, because of course she turned out to be gay after they decided not to make her a recurring character as planned and killer her off. It's even more annoying because they do have those great moments like the one with John and Ronon you mentioned, or for that matter the way John's brother seemed to interpret "civilian contractor." It's sad because having a gay character could allow for exploring social issues like DADT, which is one of the things sci-fi has always been about. Then again, these are the same people who gave us the great Keller/McKay debacle and proven they can't write good romance no matter what.

Maybe we'll get lucky with 'Universe' but since it's the same writers, I'm not holding my breath. Instead I'll just go watch Merlin

(On the topic of other shows that are respectable, there's Battlestar Galactica. The relationship Cain and Gina wasn't commented on as being remarkable in the least, and while it ended badly their relationship was still less fraked up than than most of the het ones. We'll see what happens with the other gay character.)

[bluflamingo.livejournal.com]

I could see some pointed ribbing, but nothing beyond what's normal for the two of them. It just doesn't fit their relationship at all.

Exactly! I don't see the attraction of stories where there's so much suspension of disbelief around their characters required that you might as well go read original fic.

On the topic of other shows that are respectable, there's Battlestar Galactica.

Everyone says how good this is - I think the prospect of being disappointed or not getting into it is too scary for me to try it, though you make it sound very tempting:)

[angelofmercy.livejournal.com]

Do you think Ronon's been incredibly underused this year.

[bluflamingo.livejournal.com]

As a general character, yes. As Ronon, actually not so much as previously. Everyone's underused except Rodney and Keller at the moment though.

[gaffsie.livejournal.com]

I can't count all the times I've been horribly tempted to go to genrefinders and ask for "post Trinity stories where people behave as semi-rational human beings. Thx! ^___^."

[ticketsonmyself.livejournal.com]

FTW.

[bluflamingo.livejournal.com]

See, there's a part of me saying, God, please do, but there's another part that's worried how many people would list the stories that make me wonder what show they're watching. I don't want to have it confirmed that some people actually think stories where everyone shuns Rodney till he attempts suicide are stories where people are behaving ratonally. I need the little bit of faith in humanity that I still have!

[http://users.livejournal.com/_inbetween_/]

I can. I kept them in draft posts for more than four years, occasionally exploded in moderation in comments. Every couple of years one lone person agrees, and I go "where have you been all these years" and then sense and sanity drifts off again, basically unheard.

[ticketsonmyself.livejournal.com]

could someone please gag Mallozi and give him mittens so he can't type? As much as I love the idea that Vega was gay and into Keller (which, ha! I totally called that in Search and Rescue) it's offensive to say that now they've kiled her.

Word. Mallozi keeps proving that he really needs to... stop blogging.

[skieswideopen]

I'm with you on everything here. Including the writer's block, sadly. (Says the woman with two Yule fics that absolutely must be finished this weekend, both of which I'm terribly unhappy with. Plus the 80 exams I really ought to finish marking by Monday...)

I'm still bugged by the whole set-up of Owen as a rapist in the first episode of Torchwood, something they never ended up dealing with as far as I know. And the relationship stuff...yeah. They definitely have problems. As for the post-Trinity fics...I think I've ranted about related issues here before. But I'm like you--I like John more than Rodney--and I think that's part of why I find that trope so frustrating.

[bluflamingo.livejournal.com]

But I'm like you--I like John more than Rodney--and I think that's part of why I find that trope so frustrating.

Yeah, definitely. Plus, fandom seems to be a majority of people who love Rodney the most, so I guess they want to read stories where he's tragically misunderstood and then everyone comes round to how wonderful he truly is. It just bugs me that they want it in the form of both John and Rodney being completely unlike the people we're supposed to be watching, but that's probably a different issue :)

[http://users.livejournal.com/_inbetween_/]

It just never ends. As if in reply to this John's biggest crime (http://community.livejournal.com/sgastoryfinders/2074345.html?mode=reply&style=mine) is once again brought to the surface.

[bluflamingo.livejournal.com]

Ugh. I wish everyone would leave that alone - people eat citrus fruit in Rodney's line of sight on more than one occasion, clearly an uncut lemon near him isn't going to do him any damage! I think it's as you said - that was the week on SGA where Rodney drugged John, so the lemon thing got made into much worse than it actually was to counter the fact that Rodney did something that was actually hamrful.

pain shared is halfed or something?

[http://users.livejournal.com/_inbetween_/]

She just discovered how cruel John really was (http://emrinalexander.livejournal.com/1027233.html?mode=reply&style=mine) because previously she'd only seen Rodney's side ... LJ deletion time ahead.