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Oh God, are we doing 'women writing m/m slash are just fetishizing gay male relationships' again already? Really?
Okay, I've missed most of the debate because I don't want to read it, so I can't exactly claim to be knowledgeably commenting about what people are saying, beyond the bits other people are quoting when they link, but can I just say for the record:
Not all of us write m/m, or f/f fic because we think it's hot. Some of us write it because in our world, people are gay, and since we're not going to see gay space explorers or gay marines or gay FBI agents on our tv screens any time soon, we have to write it ourselves, so we do.
Because in my world, Lorne's gay and John's bi, and so's Cadman, and probably Cam. And Colby. I'm not pretending they are because I think they're pretty together, and I know I'm not supposed to read them that way, but authorial intent actually doesn't matter, and I do think they are. And if they are, and it's a relationship story, since they're grown adults, they sometimes have sex, and if I'm bothering to write it, yes, I try to make it sexy, because it should be, as a general thing, like horror should be scary (which is why I don't write it).
I'm not totally sure what my point is, other than 'if I see one more thing about how all slash fic is by straight women either getting off on two men in bed together, or just trying to be edgy,' I shall scream.
Also: gay and bi women do exist, and we do write slash fic, male and female, and it wouldn't kill all the gay men who seem to be complaining about slash fic to remember that once in a while, because the more they don't, the more I'm disinclined to bother to listen to what they have to say, since I don't like being invisible, and I don't like being told off by someone who doesn't seem like they've got all the facts before they started.
Also: fucking talk to me when you're ready to talk about people fetishizing gay women in their fic, if you're talking about it for gay men. Personally, I say, if you want to write any kind of fic, knock yourself out (just don't make me read the het, I get bored), but, seriously, either it's fine to write f/f *and* m/m or it's not fine to write either. And if your argument is basically 'it's derogatory to a marginalised group,' yes, you need to be talking about people writing about gay women in there somewhere as well, no matter how much less prevalent it is. Otherwise, you're not fighting discrimination, you're just complaining (like me, but then I'm not claiming that I'm fighting discrimination, I'm just pointing out what's pissed me off today).
Also: actually, I don't care what you think about me and people like me and what we do for fun. We're not hurting you (which, yes, I do feel I can say, since I'm a gay woman and people write f/f fic) so just leave us alone to get on with it in peace, please.
And no, if you were wondering, I'm not having a great week, and my patience is severely limited.
Okay, I've missed most of the debate because I don't want to read it, so I can't exactly claim to be knowledgeably commenting about what people are saying, beyond the bits other people are quoting when they link, but can I just say for the record:
Not all of us write m/m, or f/f fic because we think it's hot. Some of us write it because in our world, people are gay, and since we're not going to see gay space explorers or gay marines or gay FBI agents on our tv screens any time soon, we have to write it ourselves, so we do.
Because in my world, Lorne's gay and John's bi, and so's Cadman, and probably Cam. And Colby. I'm not pretending they are because I think they're pretty together, and I know I'm not supposed to read them that way, but authorial intent actually doesn't matter, and I do think they are. And if they are, and it's a relationship story, since they're grown adults, they sometimes have sex, and if I'm bothering to write it, yes, I try to make it sexy, because it should be, as a general thing, like horror should be scary (which is why I don't write it).
I'm not totally sure what my point is, other than 'if I see one more thing about how all slash fic is by straight women either getting off on two men in bed together, or just trying to be edgy,' I shall scream.
Also: gay and bi women do exist, and we do write slash fic, male and female, and it wouldn't kill all the gay men who seem to be complaining about slash fic to remember that once in a while, because the more they don't, the more I'm disinclined to bother to listen to what they have to say, since I don't like being invisible, and I don't like being told off by someone who doesn't seem like they've got all the facts before they started.
Also: fucking talk to me when you're ready to talk about people fetishizing gay women in their fic, if you're talking about it for gay men. Personally, I say, if you want to write any kind of fic, knock yourself out (just don't make me read the het, I get bored), but, seriously, either it's fine to write f/f *and* m/m or it's not fine to write either. And if your argument is basically 'it's derogatory to a marginalised group,' yes, you need to be talking about people writing about gay women in there somewhere as well, no matter how much less prevalent it is. Otherwise, you're not fighting discrimination, you're just complaining (like me, but then I'm not claiming that I'm fighting discrimination, I'm just pointing out what's pissed me off today).
Also: actually, I don't care what you think about me and people like me and what we do for fun. We're not hurting you (which, yes, I do feel I can say, since I'm a gay woman and people write f/f fic) so just leave us alone to get on with it in peace, please.
And no, if you were wondering, I'm not having a great week, and my patience is severely limited.
Re: o.O
Yes, it is possible to acknowledge difference without downplaying one or the other, though in this case, he wasn't actually doing that (and I know that's possibly a spurious claim to make since I can't find the post I'm talking about and link to it, so you have to go on what I'm saying). He was saying, as darkrose says, that women can't understand the gay experience, period. So firstly, he's basically saying that gay equals male, when actually I and plenty of my gay female friends use gay to describe ourselves. Secondly, he's implying, by not specifiying straight, that all women are straight. Thirdly, it's a big leap from 'my experience is different from yours' to 'you can't understand it. Ever.' Obviously, one person can never have a perfect understanding of what another person feels, but, regardless of the fact that physical violence is likely to be expressed differently towards gay men and gay women, a lot of the underlying stuff is pretty similar - certainly similar enough for one person to make a reasonable extrapolation of what the other is feeling.
Obviously, he and you would disagree with me on that.